23 November 2011 in Media
David Bevan:
Jamie Briggs, Liberal MP for Mayo joins us now. Good morning Jamie Briggs.
Jamie Briggs:
Hello David Bevan and Matthew Abraham.
Bevan:
And Amanda Rishworth, Labor MP for Kingston. Good morning.
Amanda Rishworth:
Good morning.
Bevan:
Now you both had a late night. What time did the House of Reps finish up?
Rishworth:
I think it was around three o’clock.
Bevan:
Three o’clock.
Rishworth:
Yes we had a lot of votes. A lot of votes. I think over thirty votes.
Bevan:
And what were you debating? Was it all the mining tax or other things? What was it?
Rishworth:
No it was all the mining tax and in particular all the associated bills. And so yes, that debate went into the night and we know the opposition likes to say no, but voting no over thirty times is probably a bit much.
Bevan:
But how on earth can you do a good job at three o’clock in the morning? Did you have any idea exactly what you were voting on at that time in the morning?
Rishworth:
Oh look we have been debating for the last two days all of the bills, so at that point the debate had been exhausted and there had been a lot of discussion on it over the last two or three days. So look we did know what we were voting on and there were some amendments put up, but yeah, so quite of lot of divisions.
Briggs:
Well it is not quite true to say that we know what we’re voting on because we know that just a few hours later Adam Bandt, the Greens MP from Victoria, has revealed that they have done a deal – the Labor Party and the Greens have done a deal. But they haven’t yet revealed the terms of the deal. So we will find that out at some point I presume.
Matthew Abraham:
Well they were attempting, according to The Australian story which has just bobbed up to include gold and uranium mines as well. That was rejected by Speaker Harry Jenkins on the grounds it would lead to the laws being unconstitutional. And then here is says Independent MP Andrew Wilkie’s change to increase the profit threshold at which the tax kicks in to $75 million from the previous $50 million became of the final legislation. I am wondering, and coming back to David’s question, Amanda Rishworth and Jamie Briggs, when you do have big legislation like this and you’ve got negotiations going on into the wee hours when there is almost a sense of desperation about it, where you end up with a bit of dogs-breakfast.
Rishworth:
Well look a lot of those points had been negotiated in position in terms of Andrew Wilkie’s amendment. He announced that the day before, so there had been a lot of discussion around that. And in terms of…
Abraham:
What one days worth of discussion?
Rishworth:
Well look there has been a lot of ongoing discussion about this.
Abraham:
But you said he announced it the day before?
Rishworth:
Well there has been no bill that has had as much consultation and discussion about this, and what Andrew Wilkie’s amendment did, and we knew the implications of that, was to increase the threshold for when miners pay. The whole point of the bill has always been about making the big miners pay and share their profits with the Australian people.
Abraham:
Now Adam Bandt from the Greens said that he couldn’t vote for the mining tax with Mr Wilkie’s amendment because it would lead to a shortfall in revenue of $100 million over five years. But Labor agreed last night to a new revenue measure to offset this amount. What is that new revenue measure?
Rishworth:
Well look obviously as over the days that will be announced. As will a number of…
Abraham:
Well can’t you announce it now?
Rishworth:
Well, as I…
Briggs:
Come on Amanda, give them an exclusive.
Rishworth:
Excuse me, no. What we do…
Abraham:
Was that a new tax?
Rishworth:
…in terms of all of our savings, in terms of all of our points that we will make savings on will be delivered through the mid-year fiscal budget. Now we are very clear and transparent about what things we are going to cut. Unfortunately Tony Abbott is not. And there is a $70 billion black hole.
Abraham:
Amanda Rishworth, if Labor agreed last night in a deal with Adam Bandt to a new revenue measure to offset the money needed to get Wilkie’s support, and you are saying it is transparent and is part of the legislation or part of the deal…
Rishworth:
No it’s not part of the…
Abraham:
No, no but as part of the deal to secure the vote. What is that measure? What have they, because Adam Bandt knows, the Greens know, but we don’t?
Rishworth:
Well there’s always a whole lot of discussions going on with Independents, with a whole range of backbenches about how we actually ensure that we meet our savings targets and we meet our policy initiatives that are fully costed…
Abraham:
Do you know?
Rishworth:
...and fully funded. And so we will go through that process. It is not linked to the legislation.
Abraham:
Do you know?
Rishworth:
We think this legislation is incredibly important, because and you know Jamie is happy to get up and criticise, but quite frankly he voted against actually giving superannuation increase to thousands, hundreds of thousands of Australian workers.
Abraham:
We’ll come to him in a moment. According to The Australian, Mr Bandt told journalists in Canberra a condition of the deal was that the Greens couldn’t reveal any details of the measure. But he said it wasn’t a new tax.
Rishworth:
Well we go through saving measures all the time and as Wayne Swan and Penny Wong have said is that with the mid-year fiscal review that there will be saving measures because there has been a decrease in government revenue and they’ve forecast that. We’ll go through the proper processes. But I come back to the Liberal Party – they aren’t saying where $70 billion are going to come from.
Bevan:
Ok. Now Jamie Briggs, do you agree with Tony Abbott, your leader that every policy does not have to come before the party room?
Briggs:
Well I don’t really, I mean he is the leader. He gets that opportunity and if people are unhappy with the leader than they’ll change leader. I mean that’s forever been done. John Howard didn’t take every policy to the party room.
Bevan:
So you’re happy with that? He doesn’t have to bring every policy before the party room. He can just make up his own mind on stuff?
Briggs:
Well look occasionally you’re not happy with it, and we’ve talked about a couple of those policies in the past. As I say, you elect a leader and sometimes leaders use their prerogative to make decisions. Now you know best case scenario you do have a discussion about these things. Debate is good. It is useful. It gets better outcomes.
Bevan:
But you wake up some mornings and discover you’ve got a new policy and you have to go out and defend it without having had a chance to understand it or shape it.
Briggs:
Well I wish I woke up this morning with more sleep. But look, that is the prerogative of the leader occasionally, and as I said you occasionally hope and wish that you had more opportunity to have a debate. But look, it’s one of those things. When you are a leader sometimes you have to make those decisions. But let me make this point – the two big taxes which have just been passed through the Parliament, the carbon tax and the mining tax, no matter what the deal is with the Greens, both of them don’t pay for themselves. Both of them don’t raise enough revenue to pay for themselves. They both have black holes associated with them. The carbon tax doesn’t raise as much as it spends and the mining tax doesn’t raise as much as it spends. It is a very Labor way to govern.
Abraham:
Ok, so you are saying ideally he would consult more, but it is the prerogative of the leader and if you don’t like the leader you change leaders. And you are saying if he annoys enough people, and this becomes an issue then, as it did with Kevin Rudd, that was one of the, he wasn’t unpopular with the people so much as with his own party, and they dumped him – is that a risk?
Briggs:
Well Tony is doing a very good job and there has been a couple of decisions where he’s made them outside of the party room context obviously. But that is not unusual for leaders of the Liberal Party. That has happened in the past. John Howard would have done that from time to time as well.
Bevan:
What you are saying is you wouldn’t want to do it too often.
Briggs:
Yeah I think that’s right. Look it’s good to debate and I think you guys know I’m keen on debate and not necessarily always in agreement with everything that is proposed. But that is our system.
Bevan:
Were you happy with his decision to back Labor’s plan to lift the compulsory superannuation contribution?
Briggs:
Well we don’t back Labor’s plan. What he said is that in government we won’t necessarily, we won’t rescind it. We voted against it at three o’clock this morning as Amanda rightly points out. And I do support that. I think that compulsory element of it is wrong and I think putting another new tax on small business is wrong.
Bevan:
But he decided not to rescind it without consulting the Shadow Cabinet or the backbench.
Briggs:
That was a decision that the leadership group took, that’s right.
Bevan:
Is that another example of him making a decision that you think should have gone to the party room?
Briggs:
Well look whether I think it should have gone to the party room or not doesn’t really matter. He made that decision.
Bevan:
No it does matter, because if he does it too often he might lose his job.
Briggs:
Well I don’t think that is going to happen.
Abraham:
Sure thing it can happen you’ve said though, if it becomes a habit I suppose.
Briggs:
Well look he, the leadership group in fairness, made a decision relating to ongoing handling of the issue. But as I said, our position is that we oppose the increase in superannuation payment – the new tax for small business – and we’ll vote against it, and we did this morning at 3am. And the Senators, Liberal Party Senators will do the same thing. Now what they decided was that in government we won’t necessarily rescind it, which is a different of course position then what we have had in the past.
Bevan:
Jamie Briggs, thanks for talking to us. We do appreciate both of you talking to us after getting such little sleep, finishing work about three o’clock this morning. Jamie Briggs, Liberal MP for Mayo and Amanda Rishworth, Labor MP for Kingston.