02 November 2011 in Media
To listen to the audio of this interview, please click here.
DAVID BEVAN:
Amanda Rishworth, Labor MP for Kingston. Good morning.
AMANDA RISHWORTH:
Good morning.
BEVAN:
And Jamie Briggs, Liberal MP for Mayo. Good morning.
JAMIE BRIGGS:
Hello everybody.
BEVAN:
Now Amanda Rishworth, let’s start with you. Did you win anything on the Melbourne Cup?
RISHWORTH:
No, no. I don’t think I really had enough knowledge about it, so unfortunately my horse did not win. It didn’t even get a place.
MATTHEW ABRAHAM:
You didn’t follow Cocoa’s tips then, obviously?
RISHWORTH:
No, I didn’t, unfortunately. I shall know better next time.
ABRAHAM:
And Jamie Briggs?
BRIGGS:
I saw Cocoa’s tips and I should have learned from footy tipping this year that following the 27 would have been the way to go. But I arrogantly didn’t and I suffer the consequences.
ABRAHAM:
Now um…
BEVAN:
Well that is it for today, that is all we have for you today. Thanks very much for joining us.
ABRAHAM:
Now, to the both of you, Paul Kelly, Editor at Large of the Australian, a title I lust after, writing about the Qantas fall out, saying that the crisis highlights deep flaws in the Fair Work Act, but no one will commit to fix it. Is that a fair call, Amanda Rishworth?
RISHWORTH:
Well I don’t think it is a fair call. I think what we have seen over the Qantas dispute is that the Fair Work Act allowed the Government to make an application to stop the lock out by Qantas of its workers and it got resolved very quickly. They’re now in the process, where the two parties, able to bargain in good faith, so now there is a process that goes through to allow those two parties to work it out, with the intervention of Fair Work Australia.
ABRAHAM:
But the only way it was resolved, the only way it was resolved quickly was by the airline, effectively taking its own industrial action, grounding its entire fleet and stranding 70,000 ticket holding commuters or passengers.
RISHWORTH:
Lock outs are not a new thing. Lock outs happened under the previous government, many times that ended, that lasted a lot longer. Including nine months for some companies, four months for other companies, that locked out their workforce with no resolution. So to suggest that lock outs are not, are a new thing, is incorrect. But what this did show, there was the capacity for Fair Work to intervene and actually resolve the issue. Now previously we have seen, while Tony Abbott was Industrial Relations Minister, those disputes not being resolved and in fact there was a reluctance of government to even intervene, so you had long lasting disputes. So I think this has been a test and has shown that it has worked, to bring the parties to good faith bargaining.
ABRAHAM:
Okay, Jamie Briggs?
BRIGGS:
Well look, we are here because Amanda and Julia Gillard’s legislation is working as it intended. And Paul Kelly has made that point and others have as well.
ABRAHAM:
So it is working?
BRIGGS:
Well it is working in the way that the Labor Party wanted it to work.
ABRAHAM:
Which is?
BRIGGS:
They removed, the reason we are in this dispute, the reason that we have got to the intractable stage that we are, is that the Labor Party removed what, the restrictions on what matters could be bargained for in agreements. And thus, the unions are pursuing matters which are outside of the employment relationship in this agreement and they are things that Qantas quite clearly can’t come at, so the only way for Qantas to bring a resolution, or to bring this to a head, was to find a way to in effect, damage the national economy, because that was the test in the Act, which has to be met, for the dispute to be, for the bargaining period to be ended. So the Act is working as the Labor Party intended and they are very proud of it, Amanda has just said that then and Julia Gillard has said that for days and days and days.
RISHWORTH:
Well, because we believe in balance Jamie, we believe in balance.
BRIGGS:
Hang on Amanda; I know you like to stick to your talking points, so I will let you have a go back at your talking points in a minute. But, on this issue, they have gone too far. They have swung the pendulum back far too far. This dispute would not have reached the point it did under previous legislation because these matters are so far outside what the employment relationship is, that it is, they wouldn’t have been allowed to under previous legislation.
ABRAHAM:
Under WorkChoices?
BRIGGS:
No, no, no, well before WorkChoices. Well before WorkChoices, there were restrictions on what matters could be bargained for. Now the Labor Party will scream as Barry O’Farrell said, the new McCarthyism of Australian politics and Amanda will you know, go back to her talking points, talk about WorkChoices. This has nothing to do with WorkChoices…
RISHWORTH:
No Jamie, I will talk about fairness.
BEVAN:
Amanda Rishworth?
RISHWORTH:
I am happy to talk about fairness. I am happy to talk about fairness in the industrial relations system. What WorkChoices did and what the previous Government did was take the pendulum all the way towards employers, now we believe in a fair system. A fair system that gives, fairness to both employers and employees. We haven’t heard the Liberal Party at all criticise Qantas…
BRIGGS:
That is not true Amanda, that is not true. Well hang on Amanda.
BEVAN:
Hang on Jamie Briggs; you’ve had a fair go. Let Amanda Rishworth speak.
RISHWORTH:
Because they basically have said that Qantas should be able to do whatever they want because we don’t actually believe in giving fairness to the workers and to the employers, to actually have the pendulum in the middle.
BRIGGS:
Amanda, Amanda, in July when the engineer unions said ‘we will grind Qantas to a halt’, what did you say? What did you say at that time?
RISHWORTH:
Anthony Albanese clearly had said on many occasions…
BRIGGS:
No, no he didn’t. Not in July.
RISHWORTH:
Well look, he has made it very clear in Parliament that he condemned unions that said ‘don’t fly Qantas’ but took action. We believe in a fair system, a fair system…
BRIGGS:
No, no, no, the Labor Party have spent day after day…
RISHWORTH:
No Jamie, you can talk over me….
BEVAN:
Jamie Briggs, question to you, Chris from Mildura asks could you please explain which aspects are way outside the employment agreement, please?
BRIGGS:
They are seeking a provision; the three unions are seeking provisions in the agreement, which requires the union to be involved in every business decision. They want to run Qantas, that is what they are seeking to do. Now we believe…
RISHWORTH:
Jamie, it was much bigger than that.
BRIGGS:
Hang on, no it is not. The TWU Leader, your next Labor Party President, TWU, Tony Sheldon, who will be the next President of the Labor Party has said that he is happy with the wage offer. He said that on the public record. What they are pursuing are provisions in agreement to manage Qantas, now it is so ridiculous, that this is point I would make…
BEVAN:
Amanda, what would you say to that?
RISHWORTH:
There are a number of issues on the bargaining table, both…
BRIGGS:
(Inaudible) Now celebrates Virgin, the Virgin Airline.
ABRAHAM:
You must let Amanda Rishworth have a go. Amanda Rishworth do you concede that they have got the, they are not arguing over money, they are arguing?
RISHWORTH:
They are arguing over a number of issues including money, including job security and a whole range of things that they want to discuss with their company. Now we support companies and employees sitting down and discussing issues that affect employment. However and we support that bargaining in good faith. When companies can’t bargain in good faith and employees can’t bargain in good faith, then we believe there should be an industrial umpire. That is not something that the Liberal Party agrees with. We believe that there should be an industrial umpire to ensure that there is fairness in the system.
ABRAHAM:
Okay, to be continued on another day. But Amanda Rishworth, thank you - Labor MP for Kingston. Jamie Briggs, Liberal MP for Mayo. Thank you for joining us on 891 Breakfast. Matthew Abraham and David Bevan rolling towards the seven o’clock news.