08 August 2011 in Media
To watch the video of this interview, please click here.
Welcome to AM Agenda. Joining me now from Adelaide, Liberal MP Jamie Briggs and from Brisbane Graham Perrett. Gentlemen, good morning to you both.
BRIGGS:
Good morning Kieran.
PERRETT:
Good morning.
GILBERT:
Graham, I want to ask you first of all. How big of set back is this injunction granted by High Court judge Kenneth Hayne late yesterday?
PERRETT:
Well it is not surprising obviously this is an important legal matter to be considered, so it is not surprising that it would come before the High Court and let them make the decision to have a look at it and we will wait and see what happens. This is very very serious, we are talking about people’s lives and international relations, so it is appropriate that the High Court have a look at it, as I have heard in the media, Minister Bowen’s office wasn’t surprised, and you know first year legal student would tell you that it is going to be something that was going to be considered.
GILBERT:
What’s your sense about the mood in the Labor caucus though about the Malaysia deal now that it is being implemented and we can see unaccompanied minors in this group?
PERRETT:
Well I mean this was considered weeks ago. Honestly I have been out in my electorate, rather than down in Canberra. But this was considered back in May, when the proposal was first mooted. So it was certainly a policy idea that was kicked around and looked at from all different angles, certainly people in my faction in the left had a very close look at it. This was something that we were particularly worried about, but in terms of the balance of 4000 people coming out of Malaysia and it stopping the people smugglers from stopping kids on boats on balance, we looked at it and thought this is something a good to do on the balance, it is tough for kids obviously but on the balance, it will save lives and will abort something like that Christmas Island tragedy that we saw back in December last year.
GILBERT:
Jamie Briggs, doesn’t this episode this legal action and so on, does it suit the Government to some extent in that it will project this message to the region that this is a tough policy and that is really what it is about that they want to try and slow down and stop the boats, which obviously hasn’t taken place just yet. We saw another boat yesterday and that is the aim isn’t it?
BRIGGS:
Well we don’t know what the aim is with this Government, every time they try something in this area, it is a disaster. From 2008 when they changed the law which again encouraged people smugglers back into the business. Of course the boats had stopped leading into 2008, but of course when those laws were changed we have seen the disastrous results that we have had and now we have seen another disaster unfold, we saw a promise before the last election about no further on shore processing centres in Australia and of course that was broken immediately after the election, including the establishment of a centre in my electorate and now we are seeing this unravel before our eyes again. So people can’t trust the Government when it comes to border protection and that is the message that people are taking out in the community, and also in the region.
GILBERT:
With this legal action though, there was similar attempts under the Howard Government to preclude government policy so this isn’t the first?
BRIGGS:
No, but what is the first is a Government that has completely lost control of Australia’s borders in this manner and all it sea, well Graham I would be interested to see, I mean Graham was one of those who said before the last election that sending people to Nauru which is our policy and of course we have had that policy for some time, is inappropriate because the Nauruan Government has not signed the UNHCR provisions, but of course the Malaysian Government hasn’t and yet Graham now sits there.
PERRETT:
(Inaudible)Not in Mayo. Nimby Nimby,
BRIGGS:
Well no our policy has been quite clear for some time mate and I think you need to sit down with Melissa Parke, the UN Humanitarian Lawyer and the left faction and work out what does the left of the Labor Party really stand for or is it just been taken over by the Greens? And that ultimately is the problem that the left of the Labor Party have at the moment.
GILBERT:
Well Graham let me add to that, I want to get your thoughts on what Jamie said there, but in relation to the left. As you said there were concerns prior to this, now with the implementation of it you obviously will be scrutinising it very very closely.
PERRETT:
Well look and I have been quoted in the media as quoting from Shakespeare; this is a case to be cruel to be kind. And I was particularly steeled by the process of going to Christmas Island and standing on the cliffs and seeing the places where these young children had drowned. And saying we need to do what we can, we have a duty of care to stop the kids from drowning on boats and people from people ripped off my people smugglers. We have got to break that business model of people smugglers.
BRIGGS:
Well that’s not working. It’s already not working.
PERRETT:
Well Jamie give us five minutes to have a go at the policy being implemented.
BRIGGS:
So how do you explain on one hand?
PERRETT:
Our policy has been in place for five minutes. We have got to get the message out to Malaysia, Indonesia and Afghanistan wherever the people smugglers are cultivating this false hope and stop people from forking out money and coming to Australia.
GILBERT:
Jamie, what about that argument? What about that argument there? I mean as I mentioned earlier there is a, there was another vessel yesterday which arrived in Flying Fish Cove on Christmas Island so it obviously hasn’t stopped the boats yet, but what about the argument from Graham that this has only been in place for a couple of weeks, that we need to give it a little bit of time to see if it has been effective or not?
BRIGGS:
Well look at the end of the day in 2008 when the Government changed these laws, the boats had stopped coming. The people smugglers knew that you couldn’t send boats to Australia, because the policies were effective. The Howard Government policies worked, which included the Nauruan solution which is still and remains our policy it included temporary protection visas. And what I find absolutely fascinating is that Graham and his counterparts on the left and also on the right of the Labor Party, who before the last election were screaming from the roof tops, that this is inhumane you can’t possibly send people to Nauru because they haven’t agreed with the UNHCR and signed up, yet now it is perfectly fine to send them to Malaysia and we know Malaysia’s record on this issue is very patchy, that is what the UNHCR tells us, so I find the contradiction from the left absolutely…
PERRETT:
Malaysia is a much healthier democracy than Nauru that is for sure. A much prouder history.
BRIGGS:
Oh really, that’s what the UNHCR says is it? That’s what the UNHCR says is it?
GILBERT:
We have got the response; let’s move on I just want to ask you about the economy. Jamie the IMF says that Australia is well placed to manage any global faltering global economy with potential for further rates cuts and scope on fiscal policy.
BRIGGS:
Well look that report as the economist you had on prior to this segment made the point that was released prior to the events of the weekend. Some of the Australian economy is in sound shape and obviously our mining sector, our resource sector particularly in Western Australia and Queensland is performing very strongly, however on the ground I have been told day after day by small businesses in my electorate particularly in the retail sector and we saw the report from the Productivity Commission last week, that they are under the pump. I keep being told by people that they have never seen, haven’t seen conditions like this since 1991, many had not seen conditions like this full stop. So there is a complete split in the economy and I think the instability and the lack of confidence, through the lack of trust in the Government to implement decent economic policy and what is happening in an international community, two areas which will put our economic prospects at risk. We saw at the last quarter…
GILBERT:
Okay, let’s see Graham’s thoughts. We have got to get through a few other issues. Graham, the Government might have to delay the return to surplus that is quite clear is it not?
PERRETT:
Well it is still our commitment but yes there is the possibility that we will look at the facts in front us in the months ahead and I agree with Jamie it is a strained economy at the moment, you know the patch work economy. I have got businesses in my electorate that are trying to find people to hire, factories next door that are putting people of, so it is depending on whether they are connected to the mining industry or not. So it is a strained economy, I know that it is tough times, but I have got a lot more faith in the economy and the global economy. The central banks and the US are doing the right thing to respond to this crisis of fear and I have still got a bit more hope but we pragmatic the Labor Party, very pragmatic about what we need to go, we will take stock of the circumstances.
GILBERT:
We have only got two minutes to left on this chat. I want to ask you quickly about a report in The Age newspaper Graham, the Foreign Minister wrote to the Prime Minister urging that the Government abstain from a vote on a Palestinian push for a unilateral push for an independent state, this appears to be at odds with the Prime Minister’s very strong support of Israel, is this another split between the two at the top of the government? The former and current Prime Minister?
PERRETT:
Unfortunately I haven’t had a chance to read that. I am in the Courier Mail building so I haven’t had a chance to read it. Obviously we are not scared of debates in the Labor Party, we have got, it’s a broad church, we do have debates and I still think that there is not crack of light, not a crack of day light between the Foreign Minister Rudd and the Prime Minister Gillard. They have healthy debates and that is what makes a good party.
GILBERT:
Jamie, what is the Coalition’s view on this?
BRIGGS:
Well look I think this is another sign that Kevin Rudd is willing to sell off Australia’s UN vote for his desire to become a significant member of the UN Security Council and I think this is real concern, Australia has been along with the United States one of Israel’s most staunchest supporter in the past and a willingness to sell off our vote just for a few extra votes for the UN Security Council bid is a real concern and I hope the Prime Minister’s view prevails in this one. At the end of the day, there is a cancer at heart of this Government. The two most senior members of the Government do not get along and that is creating an instability within our cabinet system of government and it is something that should be cleared up as soon as possible.
GILBERT:
Jamie Briggs and Graham Perrett good to catch this morning, gents thanks a lot for that.