25 July 2011 in Media
To watch the video of this interview, please click here.
KIERAN GILBERT:
With me this morning now, Labor front bencher Richard Marles and the Liberal MP Jamie Briggs. Gentlemen, great to see you both.Why don't we start, before we get into the politics, on that huge achievement over the weekend, in fact over the last few weeks and for him decades Cadel Evans. Richard Marles, winning the Tour de France, where does this achievement sit in the annals of Australian sport in your view?
RICHARD MARLES:
It's an interesting question and one that’s been asked over the last 24 hours. I certainly think this is one of the great ornaments of world sport and an ornament that an Australian has never won before. To my mind this is bigger than winning Wimbledon or winning the British Open. Of course we claim him as a home town boy in Geelong. His Australian residence is within the City of Greater Geelong and when I went to buy the Geelong Advertiser this morning its front cover was a sea of yellow. So it's a very exciting day.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Indeed it is, Jamie you're a sports lover like Richard and myself. You would have watched many hours of this over the last few days and weeks. It was just such a tenacious effort. Where do you have it, up with the likes of Cathy Freeman, Dawn Fraser, where is it in terms of, for you, in Australian sporting achievements?
JAMIE BRIGGS:
Well I don't think you can compare. I mean this is a sport unique to itself. I mean it's quite an amazing effort really, you think about the amount of kilometres that they've ridden in the last few weeks and the injuries and pain that he's gone through. We have the Tour Down Under, which is in Australia, which is in my electorate and you see the effort that these guys put in over just five days; this is some 20 days and I think he's — it will sit up there. There's a great cartoon in the Advertiser, the Adelaide Advertiser today, not the Geelong Advertiser which has got the bar with some of our greats, whether it be Bradman or Freeman or now Cadel Evans and it is clearly up there with Australia's finest sporting hours.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Yeah, absolutely tremendous and congratulations to him from all of us. Richard Marles onto the Newspoll, some glimmer of hope, it seems for Labor it might have bottomed out the numbers and up in the carbon tax, do you take a bit of hope from that?
RICHARD MARLES:
Putting a price on carbon has never been about polls, that's been very clear. This is about doing what's right for Australia's future. We need to build an economy where growth is not coupled with a corresponding growth in carbon emissions. If we don't do that, we won't have a vibrant economy in the future. And what we've done, by putting a price on carbon, means we can look forward to the long-term prospect of a vibrant economy with long-terms jobs. That's why we've done it, it's not about polls. We've also known this is difficult policy and one which is going to take time to explain. We've done that in the face of an enormous scare campaign on the part of the Opposition. But, we are confident that given the time and opportunity to explain its effect and why we need to do what we're doing, Australians ultimately will see the wisdom of this and will support it.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Jamie, obviously no concern yet for the Coalition, you're still daylight between the Coalition and Labor at this point and certainly on the carbon tax while 53 per cent oppose it, but does it show Labor's votes bottomed out here?
JAMIE BRIGGS:
Well, look, we don't oppose it because of polls, we oppose it because it's bad policy. And I note that the front page of the Fin Review today highlights that Julia Gillard, in a memo she wrote for the Gang of Four Plus One, just last year, said exactly the same thing, that a better approach to addressing the challenge of climate change was to adopt a bipartisan agreement with the Leader of the Opposition and take on the direct action policy. So when Julia Gillard wrote privately to the former prime minister and Lindsay Tanner and Wayne Swan and Penny Wong last year, as reported in the Fin Review today, she said direct action was a better way to go. So this gets to the fundamental point about this prime minister, you cannot trust her. She sat in front of a TV camera just before the last election and said there would be no carbon tax under the government she led, afterwards she announced there would be and it gets to, who is running this country. Is it Bob Brown or is it Julia Gillard? And all indications are, if Julia Gillard was writing this to the Gang of Four Plus One last year, it must be Bob Brown who's decided that carbon tax is the best way to go.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Last week, Richard- you can respond to Jamie as well on that point about Julia Gillard and whether or not her commitment has been questioned, not just by the Opposition but by the electorate over recent months — but you were at the United Nations last week unable to get a concerted commitment by the UN to put climate change as a priority. That shows how difficult it is doesn't it, for the international community to get some momentum there?
RICHARD MARLES:
Just in terms of responding to Jamie's points, we should be very clear that this has been Labor policy for a very long time and we have dedicated a lot of political energy since being elected in 2007 to try and put a price on carbon. We've been pretty consistent about that and we've done that in the face of the Greens fighting against this in the last Parliament. So, I don't think there's any doubt about where this policy comes from. This is a Labor initiative…
JAMIE BRIGGS:
How do you explain a memo?
RICHARD MARLES:
This is a Labor initiative and I think one thing: it would have been preferable to have been doing this as a bipartisan piece with the Opposition. That's what we were trying to do in the last Parliament. But, under the leadership of Tony Abbott, we've got the most obstructionist Opposition you could imagine and one which has its head completely in the sand about the need for us to adopt a price on carbon and move towards a modern economy.But Kieran, on your point about the United Nations, I think we just need to be a little careful here. The UN is very seized of this issue. The UN Framework Convention on Climate Change has been the principle mechanism for dealing with this and that has taken up huge resources from the UN.The debate I was participating in was a debate within the Security Council and was looking at the UNSC being involved in the security aspects of this debate. This is something about which there are differing opinions in the world.But, the debate happened in the Security Council and, for the first time, we did see a presidential statement out of the Security Council on this issue. Across the broad scope of the UN system, there's no doubt about the priority put on it and the international momentum there is for change and the need to change on this issue.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Okay. Jamie, Malcolm Turnbull urged Conservatives not to discard the science, to embrace the science. He renewed that call in the last couple of days. What did you make of his comments? Do people read too much into it, some of your colleagues who were critical of him?
JAMIE BRIGGS:
Well Malcolm re-stated the party policy and we believe that we should be taking action. We've had a policy about this from before the election. We took that policy to the election and it remains our policy today. I noted Richard mentioned inconsistency, well that's an interesting line to use given that Julia Gillard, of course, was the person who forced Kevin Rudd to dump his ETS. We now know she wrote a memo, which Richard didn't touch on once in his answer, to the Gang of Four Plus One saying that we shouldn't have an ETS, we should have direct action. And before the election she told the Australian public that she wouldn't have a carbon tax under a government she led. She's been far from inconsistent on this policy issue and that's why the Australian people do not trust her with a policy that will do no economic — it will do no environmental good, it will do economic harm and it will go further than what's been announced. There's one thing — nothing surer than what the Labor Party when they get a new tax will want the revenue.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Okay, let's talk about…
RICHARD MARLES:
[Inaudible]
KIERAN GILBERT:
Well just quickly Richard, I want to look at the Malaysia…
RICHARD MARLES:
Well can I just say…
KIERAN GILBERT:
…deal to be signed today, yep.
RICHARD MARLES:
We have been pursuing a price on carbon since before the 2007 election and sometimes we're doing it with an Opposition who wants to work with us, under Malcolm Turnbull, and sometimes we're doing it with an Opposition under Tony Abbott…
JAMIE BRIGGS:
So why did she write the memo?
RICHARD MARLES:
…who is as obstructionist as you come.
JAMIE BRIGGS:
So why did she write the memo?
RICHARD MARLES:
There can be no — there can be no doubt…
JAMIE BRIGGS:
Why did she write the memo?
RICHARD MARLES:
…about the consistency of the position that we have taken in relation to this.
JAMIE BRIGGS:
[Laughs]
RICHARD MARLES:
We're about putting a price on carbon. We always have been.
KIERAN GILBERT:
On the Malaysia deal…
JAMIE BRIGGS:
Why did she write the memo?
KIERAN GILBERT:
…to be signed today, Richard, the government will obviously want to get this message out far and wide, that the deal after a couple of months, has finally been signed. Apparently, the 550 or so asylum seekers that have arrived in the last couple of months were unaware that the deal had been done.
RICHARD MARLES:
Chris Bowen has been doing fantastic work in his relationship with the Malaysian Government and, when this ultimately comes to be, this will be an important step forward in breaking the model of people smuggling. It really is going to make a difference. In fact, even the prospect of it has seen a drop in the number of people coming to Australia via boats. This is one which is balanced, which provides a good humanitarian outcome, which will see the number of refugees that Australia takes through the proper channels increase and which guarantees the human rights of those asylum seekers returning to Malaysia. It does this in a way which will break the people smuggling model and that is what, I think, Australians want to see and it's an important step forward.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Five hundred and seventy asylum seekers that have arrived though Richard, will remain in limbo won't they, because you haven't secured a deal with a third country and the Solomon Islands have offered their support, why not take that up?
RICHARD MARLES:
We've been focusing on our negotiations with Malaysia and with Papua New Guinea and we continue to work with both countries. These are complicated deals to work through and, of course, in the case of PNG specifically, they've obviously had real issues at home with the health of Sir Michael Somare. But we're working with them and that's where we are focused, in answer to the question about the Solomon Islands. But in relation to the 500-odd that you…
KIERAN GILBERT:
Will PNG be done soon? Will that deal be done sooner rather than later?
RICHARD MARLES:
The short answer to that is it will happen when it happens Kieran. We are working this through with PNG and I'm not about to put a timeframe on it. We are working closely with them and they have obviously demonstrated an interest in pursuing these negotiations. As I say, when there is something to announce, we'll announce it. But, in relation to those 500-odd that you mentioned, who have come to Christmas Island since the 7 May, we have made it clear that it should not be assumed that they will be processed in Australia and I'm sure that the minister will have more to say on their situation in the weeks to come.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Jamie Briggs, this does look like it's already had some impact. The government argues it's slowed the flow of boats. If it does achieve that, you'd welcome it wouldn't you?
JAMIE BRIGGS:
Well I'm looking forward to the Dear John and Dear Philip letters that the Labor Party are about to write, because after all the years of abuse that they threw at John Howard and Philip Ruddock, claiming that they were some sort of version of Nazis in the way that they treated people, that they abused human rights — I mean, you know, in the last few weeks we've had all this great outrage about Julia Gillard being called a liar; I remember where we used to arrive at functions with the former prime minister and the Labor Party and its supporters used to throw eggs and hurl abuse on this issue. Now we have the Labor Party signing up, to a country that has not signed up to the UNHCR arrangements, doing a one-off deal, because of a mess that they created. This is complete and utter hypocrisy and I wonder where Melissa Parke, that famous UN lawyer, you know, from the left of the Labor Party, where they all are today. They'll be in hiding in the shame that they live in, that they're now part of a party who is, you know — apparently Nauru was too bad a place to send people to, yet now we've got a deal, we presume will be announced today by Chris Bowen, with Malaysia. Give me a break. I mean, I just can't wait to see the letter, signed by all the members of parliamentary Labor Party, apologising to John Howard and Philip Ruddock for all the abuse that they threw at them over the last 10 years.
RICHARD MARLES:
Well I think we do need…
KIERAN GILBERT:
Okay. Richard — just 30 seconds Richard, we're almost out — yeah?
RICHARD MARLES:
Well I don't think anyone used the language that Jamie suggested was used…
JAMIE BRIGGS:
Oh, really?
RICHARD MARLES:
…firstly, there.
JAMIE BRIGGS:
Really? [Laughs]
RICHARD MARLES:
Well, I don't think anyone talked in term of Nazis. But the important point…
JAMIE BRIGGS:
Oh, yeah, really? You want to…
RICHARD MARLES:
…to make is that this is something…
JAMIE BRIGGS:
…you want to bet. [Laughs]
RICHARD MARLES:
…this is something now being done, in concert with the UNHCR and the International Organisation for Migration, that is not what the Howard Government did.
JAMIE BRIGGS:
Oh, that is absolute…
RICHARD MARLES:
There is a huge difference in that.
JAMIE BRIGGS:
…hypocrisy Richard.
RICHARD MARLES:
And to suggest it's a fig leaf…
JAMIE BRIGGS:
Absolute hypocrisy.
RICHARD MARLES:
….which Scott Morrison did is ridiculous.
KIERAN GILBERT:
All right, gentlemen…
JAMIE BRIGGS:
It is absolute hypocrisy.
KIERAN GILBERT:
…unfortunately we're out of time. Jamie, I think we got your point too, mate, appreciate that this morning…
JAMIE BRIGGS:
[Laughs]
KIERAN GILBERT:
…gentlemen. Have a good day and we'll chat to you soon. That's all for AM Agenda.